true shamanism,
spirituality,
mysticism,
of ancient cultures
from the world over
is being greatly insulted
with new age bullshit.
crystals, wicca, sandra ingerman,
bad smelling incense, bird feathers,
talismans, medicine pouchs, bead necklaces,
goth, satanism, sex magic, yoga classes, etc...
WTF
"Yoga for Better Sex", "Ecstacy through Tantric Sex"....
This is a slap in the face to my entire heritage.
I come from India, never once was the discovery
of sacred ancient practicies like Raja Yoga or Tantra
for the purpose of busting a nut.
Ever since people started becoming more interested
in spirituality and ancient cultures, everyone is ready
to make a buck, profaning sacred traditions with their nonsense,
writing volumes on subjects which they know nothing about,
brainwashing the ignorant into further ignorance and desecrating
entire cultures and misrepresenting age-old traditions.
spirituality,
mysticism,
of ancient cultures
from the world over
is being greatly insulted
with new age bullshit.
crystals, wicca, sandra ingerman,
bad smelling incense, bird feathers,
talismans, medicine pouchs, bead necklaces,
goth, satanism, sex magic, yoga classes, etc...
WTF
"Yoga for Better Sex", "Ecstacy through Tantric Sex"....
This is a slap in the face to my entire heritage.
I come from India, never once was the discovery
of sacred ancient practicies like Raja Yoga or Tantra
for the purpose of busting a nut.
Ever since people started becoming more interested
in spirituality and ancient cultures, everyone is ready
to make a buck, profaning sacred traditions with their nonsense,
writing volumes on subjects which they know nothing about,
brainwashing the ignorant into further ignorance and desecrating
entire cultures and misrepresenting age-old traditions.
posted by:
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Re: new age bullshit
Fri, December 29, 2006 - 3:10 PMPerhaps this tribe is wrong for you since you feel that way about the traditions of others.
Domina -
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Re: new age bullshit
Fri, December 29, 2006 - 3:11 PMperhaps you should pay
closer attention to what I say
Om -
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Re: new age bullshit
Fri, December 29, 2006 - 3:24 PM
True spirituality's greatest enemy is ego. -
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Re: new age bullshit
Fri, December 29, 2006 - 4:21 PMthere is Truth in what you say Om
New Age is a lie
but our sacred traditions
must stay alive
to breath
life force
into ancient ways.
in the center of All
is the power of One
where east and west meet
this is the pathway
to the future
Om Shanti ~
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Re: new age bullshit
Fri, December 29, 2006 - 5:56 PMthis tribe is, after all:
"dedicated to the people who are interested in Witchcraft, Wicca, magic and such."
I'm all for support and encouragement of those in our community. I agree that if someone can't respect what we do and how we do it (and more often than not, this seems to include magick), perhaps this tribe isn't a good fit.
Peace and Blessings, Traci
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Re: new age bullshit
Fri, December 29, 2006 - 9:13 PMthis is a tough subject to talk about. i too feel sometimes that some parts of spirituality have become too mainstream and fluffy, but at least people are trying, and at least they are making an effort to understand a more sacred way of life than just living in a capitalist and materialist society. i don't believe that crystals and wicca are necessarily 'new age' per se. wicca was the first organized religion i discovered, and although i am not wiccan per se, i still see it as a valid path of spirituality. i can understand your frustration, and i feel that way too sometimes. 'who do these people think that they are? they can't just pick up a feather and a crystal and say that they are spiritual!!' that's what often goes on in my head. but then again, who am i to judge someone's spiritual affiliation with the world around them. people might not think that i am entirely spiritual, but that's up to that person to believe that. they don't know me or my beliefs or connections with the spiritual realm. and the same thing goes for me thinking that about someone else. we all connect to the spiritual path differently.
and i must admit, that living in such a modern world, it is tough to live a purely non material existence. but at least people try and put some effort into understanding the spiritual realm of life. and then again, spirituality is ever evolving. there is no right or wrong way to practice, and throughout the years, people have taken ancient influences and fused them into their modern daily practices. that, to me is what part of wicca is about, at least the "reclaiming" tradition, which is about taking ancient traditions and fitting them and reshaping them to your personal spiritual being.
but all in all, i do understand and sympathize with you. a lot of what we believe has been turned into a money making business, and i don't like or agree with that aspect. -
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sorry
Sun, December 31, 2006 - 12:13 AMsorry all,
when i mentioned wicca
i did not mean it as an insult
to anyone here,
what i meant was, (and i should have clarified this)
that a lot of the stuff that
people try and sell off as: "wicca" or "shamanism"
or even "yoga" or "tantra" for that matter
a LOT of it is total bullshit
not all
i appreciate and respect all paths to Truth
whether or not it is totally opposite of mine
so many authors are giving ancinet sacred cultures
such bad names and misrepresenting them
when they talk nonsense and slander
these peoples and their practices
and talk as if they are some sort of master
without having a clue as to what they are talking about
BTW no offense to anyone here
but i don't believe in organized religion
it keeps people in chains
my only religion is Living with Awareness
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Re: sorry
Sun, December 31, 2006 - 4:12 PMI completely understand where you are coming from. I, too, become frusterated with people who claim to be "witches" simply because they bought a book on it. Or because they dress in black and wiggle thier fingers at someone. It is nothing against the traditions themselves.. it is the PEOPLE who smear them and twist them into fluffy, mainstream bullshit for the purpose of generating profit, fear, feelings of power or "coolness" that get to me. It gives other people wrong impressions and false ideas. Like Hollywood shoving paganism and satanism into the same thing.. (although they are getting much better at showing paganistic beliefs/practices in a better light). They take a part that sells (ie..tantric sex) and make it all about that one aspect. Not to say sex isn't a valid part of tantra.. but there is more to it than just "getting a nut off" as previously mentioned . *wink* Or the kids that walk around in all black with a pentagram around thier neck, claiming to be witches and threating to curse people. That really gets my goat.. lol!!!
Not to say that some people won't take these things and find the truth behind them. I believe that it's a starting point for some. But the whole trendiness and commercialization of just tiny parts of a whole is bothersome to me.
I believe I will stop here now, tho.. because I've progressed into the realm of just rambling.. LOL! -
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Re: sorry
Sun, December 31, 2006 - 5:24 PM"people try and sell off as: "wicca" or "shamanism" or even "yoga" or "tantra" for that matter
a LOT of it is total bullshit"
But not all! However some of the ads and claims I see in Calgary leave me feeling embarrased to be in the same field.
My industry is really quite something. The amount of false claims and fraudulent practices is alarming by any standard. Mr Staffa the "Witch Doctor" advertised for 3 years before the cops finnally shut him down.
The Wiccan store we had up the street only lasted 2 years and wasn't any more than a bizzare sexcapade where the so called goddess intiated students by having them nail her on the "alter" infront of the so called coven. Their idea of sex rites was misguided to say the least.
Myself, I simply call myself "a reader". I only have 2 specialties, palms and tarot and I keep all my advetising clean and simple. I make no claims and seldom tell people what I actually do. As I reaquaint the lost sense of self with the conscious identity and emotional body, I seldom tell people I have or am doing this. They will gain the result without the label. -
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Re: sorry
Tue, January 2, 2007 - 3:42 PMWith ya Om (thanks for the clarification) and Foul Faery.
One of the chores of managing an occult bookstore is that I had to read "New Age Retailer" magazine every month. Almost all of it was, as you say, New Age Bullshit, but there was always one or two items that looked right for our little witchy store. The real fun though was the fliers. Every issue came stuffed with a dozen or two dozen multi-colored paper fliers, advertising the shallowest snake oils that the White Lighter$, could come up with that month. Most of these fliers were one-sided, and those went through our three-hole punch and the backsides became our store 'read me' book. All of us writing jokes and pictures all over the front of the fliers was some of the funniest stuff I have ever read.
And that's really my take on most New-Age practices and practitioners: Shelling out for instant enlightenment will only bring about instant karma. Luckily, I find it all pretty amusing. Most days, at least. ;-) -
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Re: sorry
Tue, January 2, 2007 - 5:32 PMI heard a joke once along the lines of, "what's the difference between an item purchased at an Occult store and a New Age store?"....the answer was, "about $25"
=-)
Thanks to Om and all others. I appreciate a tribe that is able to have a heated discussion and not "come to blows". I really like it here.
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Re: new age bullshit
Tue, January 2, 2007 - 7:49 PMGreat topic guys.
I joine dthis tribe because of this excellent topic.
I agree with you Om.
I think people with discernment who seek 'truth' often are dismayed at what occurs in an 'industry'. A money making industry. Commerce does remove the soul of the product, but let's not forget that what we seek, is already contained within.
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Unsu...
Re: new age bullshit
Tue, January 2, 2007 - 11:02 PMadya I love what you had to say, and om if you don't agree with that stuff than don't do it, simple as that -
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Re: new age bullshit
Wed, January 3, 2007 - 4:45 PMIt would be good if it was as simple as that, but what others do, affects us all. Especially if we live a community.
Choice is great, but it does not solve all problems or issues.
In my humble opinion. -
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Re: new age bullshit
Thu, January 4, 2007 - 10:19 AMThanks for all the support!!
some fake gurus claim
that you can go into "samadhi", or cosmic consciousness
through orgasm
you can't get enlightened
thru your pecker or vagina
but it's what people wanna hear
so that they can justify
their sexual cravings
and lustful behaviors
i visited a fake shaman
who does "soul retrievals"
by shaking a maraca and pounding a frame drum,
burning sage,
and listening to a cd on headphones lol
digital shaman?
what kind of shaman does soul retrievals
with headphones on?!
nothing against maracas, frame drums, or sage
but she's exploiting people to make a few bucks
in the name of spirituality
like cupo said,
"what others do affects us all."
this kind of cheating most certainly affects me
because I can't sit idle
while these crooks are out scamming people left and right
just my two
Om -
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Re: new age bullshit
Fri, January 5, 2007 - 10:59 AMsexual energy is spiritual energy in physical form (after all this is the energy that invites new life (spirit) into matter). i see what you are saying in that pursuing sex purely for gratification will enmesh you further in matter, but i dont think you can discount tantric paths entirely just because some people do this. transmuting crude sexual energy through the power of meditation is surely a viable path.
as far as other's paths you cant ever really know whats going on in someone elses head. she probably doesnt feel she is exploiting. and even if she is intentionally doing so, she is doing so at her own expense. it would be more appropriate to feel sorry for this person as the resultant effects of preying upon people with spirituality are very grave. psychic animosity isnt going to help her or you.
that said, no need to ignore a situation where unnecessary harm is being rendered out of ignorance. Just remember what is your real enemy. Direct your wrath at the ignorance, not the person under its sway.
Atisha's advice: "Always keep a smiling face and a loving mind, and speak truthfully without malice." -
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Re: new age bullshit
Fri, January 5, 2007 - 11:37 AMIt's very true, Brandon. Sex raises a lot of power, and if you can focus that power in spellcasting, it makes for a very, very strong spell.
There are many ways to use sex magick that aren't about getting off for the sake of getting off.
Tantric sex is a very wonderful form of shared meditation. I'm sure some of the teachers and practitioners are fakes. Tell me of any field where there aren't any dishonest practitioners. Still, I think that on the whole, they do more good than harm.
Domina
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Tantra
Fri, January 5, 2007 - 12:25 PMTantra, in essence, has nothing to do with sex.
"Tantra" is a Sanskrit word which means "Technique."
So really, Tantra is basically a series of techniques
used to attain higher levels of Awareness.
The direction of sexual energy must be reversed
and made to flow upwards, instead of downwards,
in order to transmute it into higher consciousness.
Om -
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Re: Tantra
Sat, January 6, 2007 - 12:47 PMOkay, I've been following this thread and I have some questions about Tantra. Understand, please, that I really am not familiar with this form of energy work or what is really involved; which is to say I'm looking for information not a blasting of my obvious ignorance etc. etc. So here goes...
My understanding thus far (from this post in particular) is that Tantra means technique and is a series of techniques to attain higher levels of awareness. Typically attainment of this higher level of awareness is done via manipulation of various forms of energy. That being said why can't you direct sexual energy to achieve those ends? Is it just that this is not historically how it was done, or is there some reason why it can't be done? It seems to me like a series of techniques could be developed, and may well already have been developed, to do just that. If you can keep yourself centered enough during sex you can direct that energy any which way you want. Well, you and your partner anyway.
Stacy -
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Re: Tantra
Sat, January 6, 2007 - 7:02 PMOm apparently is the expert on meditation and tantra. I'm merely a witch who uses sex magick to empower certain forms of spells. I probably shouldn't talk about it here since apparently this ISN'T a tribe for magick workers, but yes, if you reach a meditative state, then engage in sex with a focus NOT on orgasm, but on the result of the spell, you can call up quite a bit of power and direct it.
There are some books on this technique, but so far, all of the one's I've read seem to have some serious flaws in them.
Domina -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: Tantra
Sat, January 6, 2007 - 9:21 PMSex is a very effective, powerful tool for raising such energies. I think what Om may have been trying to point out, is that sex is not the ONLY means of tantra. But seems to be the only one people refer to, so that many people think tantra MEANS sex. -
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Re: Tantra
Sun, January 7, 2007 - 1:54 PM"so that many people think tantra MEANS sex."
Really? I'm so out of touch with the greater pagan community. It's funny how people will believe and associate whatever it is they want as opposed to what is really there.
Stacy
Hope that made sense.
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Re: Tantra
Tue, January 9, 2007 - 1:38 PMLet me preface this by saying I don't know anything about Hindu Tantra, but am rather familiar with Buddhist Tantra. what Om is saying about it meaning technique is correct, it doesnt actually mean sex at all, but is more akin to 'method' or 'technique', but technique for what? the implication Tantra has in Buddhism is of a technique specifically used to dissolve the inner winds into the central channel while remaining conscious and awake (normally we only experience this while unconscious in deepest sleep). to be able to do this consciously is by necessity a technique of meditation. the point of dissolving the winds into the central channel is to generate a prolonged and great bliss that gives the mind supreme flexibliity which can then be used to meditate on the 'emptiness'--selfless nature--of all things/phenomenon (including the mind apprehending it) The little bliss of immediate gratification sex is a tiny fragment of this great bliss, but it is important to understand they are not actually separate energies. The little bliss of sex comes from very brief dissolution of the inner winds and is very uncontrolled (think about the eyes crossing orgasm) as opposed to the great bliss of "Tantra" which is a controlled meditation that draws the winds and drops (sexual fluids) into the central channel where, if they are to remain, they must be drawn upwards into the higher energy centers ie transmuted as Om mentioned.
To draw in the winds and drops to the central channel can be accomplished simply through meditation, but it would be incorrect to say there are no Tantric methods that involve sex, or the sexual imagination as a quick way to generate energy--there certainly are. the trouble comes in when we do not have the knowledge of how to distinguish between an attachment-based mind that experiences sex as a selfish act of gratification and a mind of meditation that desires to use the process to gain deeper states of experience. you may encounter one day a "tantric" practicioner who has not made this distinction and uses the term to rationalize behavior they wish a spiritual tradition encouraged.
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Re: new age bullshit
Sat, January 27, 2007 - 11:41 AMi agree with all that you have said so far an excuse me i am new to this tribe so you are sayin you dont believe in crystal use also ? it is a focusing tool for some ? but anywho ty an bright blessings to you an yours
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Re: new age bullshit
Fri, January 5, 2007 - 5:11 PMMy father's grandmother was an Amerindian, and used medicine pouches in her magickal practice. A lot of Ameriindians still do.
Hoo doo and Voudou practices use conjure bags.
Incense has been used by many churches and religions over the years.
Feathers. I don't know how many religions and cultures use feathers for spells, divination, or talismans, but it's a lot. The ones I'm personally familiar with are Amerindian beliefs and Appalacian Folk Magick. But there are many more out there. Certainly I collect the bird feathers that are left under my bird feeders for use in various spells and crafts.
Talismans? Almost every religion uses talismans of one sort or another.
Wicca is certainly a well respected pagan religion.
Yoga classes. Well, my doctor recommends them for my sciatica. I've always thought they were good healthful exercise. I think most people see them that way.
I just don't see the point of denigrating the religious practices of others this way. Certainly it damages the credibility of the one who feels the need to be so rude.
Domina
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Unsu...
Re: new age bullshit
Sat, January 6, 2007 - 1:52 AMActually I joined to say good on yer Om for telling it like it is in some respects. -
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Re: new age bullshit
Fri, January 19, 2007 - 8:58 PMActually,I always thought it should have been called ' Old Age' since we align ourselves with the psychic tides of the earth which we know to be very very old. Hmm... I wonder.
Blessed Be, Simmah -
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Re: new age bullshit
Fri, January 26, 2007 - 7:27 PMtantra is practices for aligning the energy body. sexual tantra can be a part of that, .... or not. There are tantrikas who
don't do anything sexual. they are a minority compared to those who include sexuality as one part of the whole
system. The main problems is that pop culture has seized on tantra as a gimmick to sell shit by.
by far most people talking about tantra don't know much if anything about it; same as with wicca.
its the same complaint as wiccans dealing with satanists. No, that pentacel don't mean whatcha think it
does, and beltaines the only festival with outrageous sex.
(er)
anyways...
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Re: new age bullshit
Mon, January 29, 2007 - 9:31 PMTantra is the spiritual path my husband follows. I've experienced two different groups form our local community. This is what I found.
Neo-Tantric (the first group we explored) focused on heart opening exercises and intimacy experiences. We found some people interested in polyamory and others looking to explore and improve their intimacy as a couple. We meet individuals hoping to connect on a deeper level with others, regardless of sexual preference. This was my husbands thing, but i did attend a couple of workshops which I found beneficial. I'd say this is the group that has a more sexual focus and a New Age foundation. I found many people here to have good intentions, kind hearts with there share of jerks and posers.
Hindu based Tantra is where my husband found a truly amazing guru Kali Ma.
Nothing like the neo-tantrics.
One enening I went to a satsang, which means a teaching. Although this is not my path,
I saw my husbands attraction for great spiritual growth. The group that gathered for the evening sat as Kali Ma prayed with us, sang to us and gave a teaching from some of the wholly texts Hindu Tantra is based. You can only learn from a guru as I understand it, because the guru gives transitions of the teachings to students. She whispered in my ear. This kind of Tantra teaches that by embracing all desires one can be enlightened. I'm so happy my husband has found such a wonderful guru. In Hindu, Tantra is considered a left-handed path. I was told in India it is discouraged.
Buddhist based Tantra I have no direct experience of. Brandon, I believe covered it.
It's all about learning and growing. If you haven't learn to see a truth, to see past someones bullshit for yourself, then you've got to do it some time.
Blessings
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Unsu...
Re: new age bullshit
Fri, February 23, 2007 - 7:11 AMDragging a semi dead thread to the top again. I'm new to this group, but far from new to my practices.
I saw from the first where Om is coming from, and why. I've met many American Indians who feel the same way, and truly resent people who don't even have a drop of Indian blood trying to claim their ways. They feel that something, anything should remain sacred only to them. Can you blame them? Their beliefs and practices were the only things they were actually allowed to keep, and then often only in secret.
As I read through the thread, someone said (and I apologize for not remembering the name) that we should be against these fallacious practices and deceptions, but not against those who fall victim to them.
But my question is - what about those who fall victim to them and happily and willingly choose to remain purposefully ignorant? You could talk until you turn blue, you die of old age, the universe implodes, but they wil still insist that Whitelighters must indeed exist, that every ghost or spirit that wanders through must needs be a demon, and that you can be witch without having been initiated via the Great Rite - not once, but several times. I use these examples because, well, I've heard them told to me as ultimate truths.
So what about these people? Personally, they start to make my brain hurt with their "logic" (though it could also be credited to beating my head on the metaphorical wall) and I have to get away from them.
Maybe when I was still teaching high school I met too many "mall witches" who at 14 insisted they knew all and were HP and HPS after 3 months, maybe I'm getting more cynical as I get older, maybe less tolerant too.
Maybe there are people out there making a mockery of older - and newer -beliefs and practices.
I've felt as Om does too often.
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Re: new age bullshit
Tue, May 22, 2007 - 8:47 PMI think the essence of this post was about something called:
Cultural Appropriation
Look it up in a search engine and see what you find, Wikipedia has a dead on definition and examples. -
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Re: new age bullshit
Wed, May 23, 2007 - 12:03 AMthe pagan village tribe has my thoughts on the problem of fluff bunnies.
cultural misappropriation is one serious problem, there are others. -
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Re: new age bullshit
Wed, May 23, 2007 - 12:04 AM1 - 10 of about 170,000 for cultural misappropriation - 0.42 sec. (About this page)
WEB RESULTS
1.
The Cauldron: Main Forum
... in disagreement about some of their accusations of "cultural misappropriation" ... I don't actually believe there is any such thing as "cultural misappropriation. ...
www.ecauldron.net/mb/ - 170k - Cached - More from this site
2.
Personal Views about the Exploitation of Native Cultural Traditions
Comments regarding cultural misappropriation regarding Native Cultures and support of traditional Native leaders ... about Native cultural misappropriation: ...
members.tripod.com/windthruherhair/cultural_exploitation.html - 12k - Cached - More from this site
3.
Personal Views about the Exploitation of Native Cultural Traditions
... and exploitation (also known as misappropriation) of native cultural traditions. ... but these are some websites about Native cultural misappropriation: ...
thunder-fox.com/cultural_exploitation.html - 10k - Cached - More from this site
4.
Traditional Knowledge, Genetic Resources and Traditional Cultural ...
World Intellectual Property Organisation (WIPO) pages on Intellectual Property ... traditional cultural expressions (folklore) against misappropriation and misuse, ...
www.wipo.int/tk/en - 9k - Cached - More from this site
5.
2038: Cultural Appropriation: Reckless Borrowing or Appropriate ...
... Cleveland Indians' baseball team's misappropriation of native american symbols ... a section about cultural misappropriation at www.sonomacountyfreepress. ...
archive.uua.org/ga/ga01/2038.html - 8k - Cached - More from this site
6.
The Metaphysic of the Cultural Tradition - Tennessee - tribe.net
The Metaphysic of the Cultural Tradition: Reviews and ratings ... and languages and address the cultural misappropriation that are a threat to their survival. ...
tennessee.tribe.net/recommendation/The-Metaphysic-of-the-Cultural-T... - 32k - Cached - More from this site
7.
The Selling of Indian Culture
The Dakota/Lakota/Nakota Human Rights Advocacy Coalition is a traditional grassroots Oyate movement for the protection of our Red Nations' treaties and human rights.
www.dlncoalition.org/dln_issue...ulture.htm - 28k - Cached - More from this site
8.
Protecting Cultural Heritage: International Law after the War in Iraq ... (PDF)
pillage, misappropriation or vandalism against cultural property. ... to prohibit, prevent and put a stop to theft, misappropriation of, and ...
culturalpolicy.uchicago.edu/.../papers/Hladik.HagueConvention.pdf - 118k - View as html - More from this site
9.
Coming Into Being - sermon
The questioner asked about cultural misappropriation - about whether or not we ... of the conversations about this cultural misappropriation and he was able to ...
www.msu.edu/user/uulansmi/...ngintobeing.htm - 24k - Cached - More from this site
10.
The Affectivity of Popular Music on Youth Identity in Non-Urban ... (PDF)
... Canadian Association for Cultural Studies Conference: ... laws about cultural misappropriation. When faced with the reality of the suburbs, Jeremiah felt ...
www.culturalstudies.ca/proceedi...hayes.pdf - 113k - View as html - More from this site
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Re: new age bullshit
Wed, May 23, 2007 - 3:19 AMSame old argument.. new thread.
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Re: new age bullshit
Wed, May 23, 2007 - 5:20 PMif there's anything a non-conformist hates worse than a conformist....it's another non-conformist who doesn't conform to the prevailing standards of non-conformity. -
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Re: new age bullshit
Wed, May 23, 2007 - 8:13 PMThanks Autumn! i pull that one out of my hat only when it's absolutlely necessary! :-)
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Re: new age bullshit
Wed, May 23, 2007 - 10:26 PMRight on!!!
If you want to learn about the Roots of this stuff, it requires life times of work and dedication.
Dragofly
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Re: new age bullshit
Sat, July 28, 2007 - 10:50 PMEXACTLY!!!
Wow... Im glad someone knows what I frequently rant about.
The blind leading the stupid.
The Kama Sutra is also another good example, due to the misconceptions everyone thinks straight away, ooo sex lessons. Not knowing what a "Sutra" is, or having read an unabridged translation of the original manuscript.
New Age Ecclectics, merging everything and anything, and lumping it under one term.
Wicca is an excellent example... therefore I understand fully why this would be posted here.
Anyone who disagrees with this post, is clearly part of the problem.
