Wicca and Witchcraft are not the same thing. Wicca is a form of Witchcraft, just as Mormon is a form of Christianity. Not all Christians follow Joseph Smith’s book of Mormon, just as not all people who practice forms of Witchcraft are Wiccan.
Where does this misconception, that all Witchcraft is Wicca stem from? Authors and people just new to Wicca, the Occult, Witchcraft, and so on. Just like when you hear born again Christians, the new entry ones who don’t know jack about their own religion, going around saying “if it wasn’t for Jesus, you wouldn’t be here.” my response “umm, no… if it wasn’t for God I wouldn’t be here. The Christ and God are two different things my deluded friend.” You usually hear new Wiccans saying, they stole this, and this is ours and that’s ours. Pretty much every religion that’s not Christian, that worships a Goddess of one form or another has to be some form of the Original Wicca.
How does this misconception come about? Well I will show you, via quoting a book:
Soraya’s Book of Spells, page 25 under “Is Wicca a new religion” and the quote is as follows:
“Wicca or paganism is not a religion at all. Wicca is a Goddess based belief system that can be dated back 25,000 years.”
Now I will pull this apart, just to show you the problems with this quote.
1. “Wicca or paganism” - The terms Wicca and Paganism, just like the terms Wicca and Witchcraft, are not one in the same. Wicca is merely a form of Neo-Paganism. The modern definition for the word Pagan, is someone that is not of the mainstream faiths, which are “Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Hindi”. I’m pretty sure the Zoroastrians don’t follow Wiccan practices, and their a pagan religion.
2. “is not a religion at all.” - Well in one part she is right, Paganism is not a religion, it’s a term to define a whole lot of religions, but Wicca itself is a religion. Though in the Gardnerian Book of Shadows it says you are supposed to not claim Wicca as a religion, rather say all witchcraft is evil. The structure of Wicca itself, is what classes it as a religion.
3. “Wicca is a Goddess based belief system” - NO! *SLAP* NO! BAD MONKEY! Wicca is not just Goddess based, sure there were, and probably still are, the feminist Dianic Wiccans who removed the God, for what ever reason, but I don’t consider it Wicca, so it is not of too much concern. Why not? because Wicca was about balance, and its main representation of this was in its deities. Having a High Priestess and High Priest, who was the High Priest meant to be acting out in the Great Rite, if there was no male deity. All summed up: Wicca has a Goddess and a God. Not just one or the other.
4. “that can be dated back 25,000 years.” - Really? Wow… 25,000? Really? I’m pretty sure the 1950’s weren’t that long ago. Gerald Gardner created Wicca in the 1950’s just after the laws against Witchcraft in England were lifted. He claimed his religion “Wicca” to be from a secret Witch Cult which survived the burning times and so on. The Scholars then took to Wicca, and pulled it to pieces finding the truth about this, apparently “Old” religion, finding his texts to be influenced by English and Celtic Folk-lore, the Enochian system of John Dee, Thelema, the Golden Dawn, Stregaria, Tantric Yoga, the King James Version of the Holy Bible and even Kipling. The rest was made up by him as he went along, and was estimated to be wrote between 1949 and 1961.
I know this really rips the undies of new Wiccans. Their eyes unwillingly pried open, trust me it hurts, it happened to me. I spent six months researching what I believe to be Wicca only to find a website, which no longer exists called “WhyWiccansSuck” it broke my heart, but as I researched its claims, I quickly found it to be true.
Where does this misconception, that all Witchcraft is Wicca stem from? Authors and people just new to Wicca, the Occult, Witchcraft, and so on. Just like when you hear born again Christians, the new entry ones who don’t know jack about their own religion, going around saying “if it wasn’t for Jesus, you wouldn’t be here.” my response “umm, no… if it wasn’t for God I wouldn’t be here. The Christ and God are two different things my deluded friend.” You usually hear new Wiccans saying, they stole this, and this is ours and that’s ours. Pretty much every religion that’s not Christian, that worships a Goddess of one form or another has to be some form of the Original Wicca.
How does this misconception come about? Well I will show you, via quoting a book:
Soraya’s Book of Spells, page 25 under “Is Wicca a new religion” and the quote is as follows:
“Wicca or paganism is not a religion at all. Wicca is a Goddess based belief system that can be dated back 25,000 years.”
Now I will pull this apart, just to show you the problems with this quote.
1. “Wicca or paganism” - The terms Wicca and Paganism, just like the terms Wicca and Witchcraft, are not one in the same. Wicca is merely a form of Neo-Paganism. The modern definition for the word Pagan, is someone that is not of the mainstream faiths, which are “Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Hindi”. I’m pretty sure the Zoroastrians don’t follow Wiccan practices, and their a pagan religion.
2. “is not a religion at all.” - Well in one part she is right, Paganism is not a religion, it’s a term to define a whole lot of religions, but Wicca itself is a religion. Though in the Gardnerian Book of Shadows it says you are supposed to not claim Wicca as a religion, rather say all witchcraft is evil. The structure of Wicca itself, is what classes it as a religion.
3. “Wicca is a Goddess based belief system” - NO! *SLAP* NO! BAD MONKEY! Wicca is not just Goddess based, sure there were, and probably still are, the feminist Dianic Wiccans who removed the God, for what ever reason, but I don’t consider it Wicca, so it is not of too much concern. Why not? because Wicca was about balance, and its main representation of this was in its deities. Having a High Priestess and High Priest, who was the High Priest meant to be acting out in the Great Rite, if there was no male deity. All summed up: Wicca has a Goddess and a God. Not just one or the other.
4. “that can be dated back 25,000 years.” - Really? Wow… 25,000? Really? I’m pretty sure the 1950’s weren’t that long ago. Gerald Gardner created Wicca in the 1950’s just after the laws against Witchcraft in England were lifted. He claimed his religion “Wicca” to be from a secret Witch Cult which survived the burning times and so on. The Scholars then took to Wicca, and pulled it to pieces finding the truth about this, apparently “Old” religion, finding his texts to be influenced by English and Celtic Folk-lore, the Enochian system of John Dee, Thelema, the Golden Dawn, Stregaria, Tantric Yoga, the King James Version of the Holy Bible and even Kipling. The rest was made up by him as he went along, and was estimated to be wrote between 1949 and 1961.
I know this really rips the undies of new Wiccans. Their eyes unwillingly pried open, trust me it hurts, it happened to me. I spent six months researching what I believe to be Wicca only to find a website, which no longer exists called “WhyWiccansSuck” it broke my heart, but as I researched its claims, I quickly found it to be true.
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Re: Wicca vs. Witchcraft
Mon, July 30, 2007 - 7:37 AMWell done...
When ever someone asks me I tell them I am a Born again Pagan, and then watch them try to figure it out...
It's almost fun, seeing their eyes cross.
I talk to the Guru Baba Hari Dass, and told him what I believed to be true:
God is energy. We, the candles, the trees, the universe is all made of energy. When we die and this physical shell that holds our Soul, which is my consciousness is released like air escaping a burst balloon and returns to the God energy. That means that spirits and Ghost are people’s souls being held together by the will of the individual. As for will, if my beliefs, prayers, focus call it what you will, is strong and clear enough I can manipulate the God energy to create my own reality. For what I think and feel will through the act of will become what I am.
Throughout the whole time I was speaking he kept smiling and Nodding... When I was done the room was stunned into silence and the other 14 people sitting in the 1/2 circle around BabaJi was staring at me like I had just grown a third eye... The guru then wrote on his speaking slate (He has not spoken since 1952) “When the balloon breaks, the air tastes of the rubber” When I asked him what he meant he just smiled and wrote “Try it” I believe what he was referring to was Each persons soul has its own unique feel or flavor. That even after death those who’s will or Intent is stronger can and do linger for a while. The flavor is how we know them, feel them when they are near us.
Mahaveer -
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Re: Wicca vs. Witchcraft
Mon, July 30, 2007 - 11:25 PMNice...
I preach to myself. And mould my own beliefs, rather than go into group discussions or have guru's.
Maybe what he meant, as you spoke on the energy of god, and out energy becoming once again, one with the God form. Different vibrations... you know, Positive and Negative, the different achievements of the mind and body to mould the soul, so its energy will correspond with the god form. I know a belief like that exists, Im not sure what religion. Kind of like reincarnation, when your soul goes keeps experiencing life until it has achieved balanced and can return to the God form.
Also kind of like the drunken rant I had about Heaven and Hell and its energy correspondences. Hell being the ultimate negative, your soul (energy) becomes one with the other negative energies... and thus you live in torment, because your soul is with all the other negative souls. And heaven being the other ultimate extreme, of positivity. Kind of makes people look at you strange when they are talking about red demons with pitch forks, dancing around flames, and you pipe up with something like that.
As for being a born again Pagan... Im not part of any religion, Im more of a leader than a follower, though and willing to learn. Not knowing what to term myself, a friend of mine who, without my knowledge, had similar "hidden" interests said.... you sound like an "Occultist". Kind of a wide open term, but I guess that sums it up best.
Im glad you liked my rant... I have a tendency to rant... as you can see from my comment. :D
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Re: Wicca vs. Witchcraft
Sat, August 4, 2007 - 9:14 PMWel said, well said.
I know someone who has access to the text of Why Wicca Sucks, and has been trying to get permission to repost the material in a new place/forum. I believe the original writer, 4nonGoths, passed on and the person is in contact with her family regarding the site and reviving it.
I have been sending people to here if they are truly interested in Wicca - wicca.timerift.net/- they seem to have the best handle on reality.
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Re: Wicca vs. Witchcraft
Fri, August 10, 2007 - 3:52 AMLink didn't want to work for some reason, but I Googled it. wicca.timerift.net
I am in love... I knew somewhere deep down I didn't have to wear long robes and buy lots of toys to be interested. Thank you SO much for that link! Research and humor too.
Sing wit me now - "I am not a fluffy bunny... I am not a fluffy bunny... I am not a fluffy bunny...." -
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Re: Wicca vs. Witchcraft
Mon, May 5, 2008 - 11:39 PMThe matter is not in words or apparent practice, it is permutation bersus nagual, as either one permutates the elements of this world or he acts in the other, for wchich he is not at all on this forum. Why should one abiding in the other world go to Internet? a splinter of otherworldliness is responsible for confusion since practitioners have to have at least some talent, a split second so-to-say, of nagual, in order to feel the conflict at all. Others permutate.
Klaudio Zic RTRRT lulu.com/astrology 81 777 888 :|:||| |:|:::
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Re: Wicca vs. Witchcraft
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 9:06 AMI guess the classification of wicca versus pagan versus christian versus whatthehellever is realy determined more by what a person is reading versus what the real truth is. Item from wiicnglade.com as an example:
"Depending upon how you look at Wicca, it is either one of the newest or one of the oldest religions in the world: Wicca is a recently created, Neopagan religion. The various branches of Wicca can be traced back to Gardnerian Witchcraft which was founded in the UK during the late 1940s. Wicca is based on the symbols, seasonal days of celebration, beliefs and deities of ancient Celtic society. Added to this material were Masonic and ceremonial magickal components from recent centuries. In this respect, it is a religion whose roots go back almost three millennia to the formation of Celtic society circa 800 BCE."
This statement tells me that my Nordic beliefs classify me as a wiccan? Well...if I didn't know any better I would assume this to be the truth. Then again, when I read the Bible, which I have done from cover to cover, my interpretation of these words is a far cry different from that of the average christian being "taught" the meanings versus being put in the position to interpret them.
Is there a God and his son, Christ? Sure there is. There are also many other Gods, Goddesses and deities. It isn't up to me to argue my "title" in the realm of spiritual belief...only to believe.
My moral substance isn't based on the Ten Commandments because it is a christian rule of thumb, but, more simply, a good practice of being a decent human being. So that makes me neither christian nor pagan. Just human.
"Witchcraft", for what it is worth, is THE CRAFT OF THE WITCH....his or her practice of beliefs. Nothing more, nothing less. Albeit some may choose to incorporate a magnitude of tools and fancy garments, follow a preset rhythm of ceremonial practices and even howl at the full moon on occasion, while others may choose to opt for a simpler mindset for day to day living, it is still simply the crat of the witch, not a separate "religion".
As for "paganism"...this is a generalized term for a spritual belief system outside of th realm of christian, jewish or muslim faith. Ironically, "pagan" was here first, a belief system based on the worship of not only Norse and Celtic tradition, but also Greek. Christians apply the term pagan to those who do not choose the christian belief and deem us as hedonistic and, are you ready for this, of irreligious faith.
If I were to hear the phrase "if it wasn't for God you wouldn't be here", I would have to rebuttle with my firm belief that the universe exists for a more cosmic, scientific reason, knowing, of course, that the christian God given al of the credit for creating the universe and all that it contains came later than the pagan gods and godesses to whom I, personally, pay tribute.
Now...to finally make my point for even responding to this thread...titles mean nothing. Being a good person, treating others with respect and consideration, irregardless of their rleigion, color, race and creed is a heckuva lot mor important, and in the end, fundamentally valuable, than worrying over how my spritual choices are classified by others. -
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Re: Wicca vs. Witchcraft
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 7:22 PMForgive me if I'm way off-base here, but *sometimes* it seems to just be semantics. Just because one calls oneself Wiccan or a Witch, it shouldn't label their beliefs or way of practicing. Some seem to see the two terms as interchangeable, others see HUGE differences. Years ago, I had a friend who was adamant that she is a Witch not Wiccan. Her belief was that Wiccans were "way too politcal" (her words, not mine). Her way of life, belief system, etc. never seemed too much different than another friend who demanded that she is Wiccan...not a Witch. She only saw Witches as Kitchen Witches.
just my nickel's worth based on two friends. -
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Re: Wicca vs. Witchcraft
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 3:22 PMHeh - must know your friend. I have friends who are coven bound, and your friend is right it is much too much political, and dependent upon the egos of the HPS and the HP. No thanks. I got out of formal education because I cannot stand the politics - I want it in my "outside" practices too? Nope.
I don't see it as semantics - nor do a lot of other folk. They are two distinct sets - one a religion, one a practice. easily combined for some, not so for the rest of us happily without religion.
It does label your beliefs, however - I am not Wiccan because I worship no gods, nor do I feel the need for the religious aspect of it all. I AM a witch, because it is a practice that I have incorporated into my life since I was a small child. Those who taught me considered themselves Christian and would never have used either term.
For the Wiccans, I have met several who like the worship aspect but have chosen to never practice witchcraft - now or in the future. It just doesn't appeal. The distincion matters for them too.
There's lots of different types of witches out there, even techowitches.
I say be what you want to be , but don't confuse me for something I'm not, nor insist we are all the same. Far from it.
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Re: Wicca vs. Witchcraft
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 4:57 PMI often think of myself as a solitary witch. Not being anyone's granny, I just don't want to think of myself as a "granny woman" which would be a lot more like the truth of my spiritual path. But I practice a rather eclectic variation of Appalacian Folk Magick. Nothing Wiccan about it.
Domina
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